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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Lucky-Fan
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lol what is the point of making the losing bracket go against the winning bracket? yeah it gives the losing bracket a bit more hope, but it was already made clear who people prefer

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:09 pm 
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As to why this kinds of things should be regarded to the creativity and not by skill...tremendous bias will occur
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Last edited by Obitual Crow on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Error 404 wrote:
Mikulo@
I'm not starting a war, I'm just saying that this is stretching to much and it could be doen quickly. Because in here we all know who is the first, second and third place, and we didn't need 8 threads (or more) to know it.


Man this is why the competition is having such a hard time... This competition is not just about skill and obviously Crow is the most skilled and OBVIOUSLY in your eyes he will win this no doubt. This competition was not just intended for skill. It was mainly about CREATIVITY[skill is also needed but not the winning key alone]. This competition is looking for the most CREATIVELY and CUTELY created character[if you have skill added on then that would be a bonus] not THE MOST SKILLFULLY done character. Man if I was just looking for skill I would just need your characters name and nothing else. Why on earth do you think I would take the trouble to ask for BIO [example: Age/Likes/Dislikes/added bio if you want]? That would be a total waste of my time. I bet most of you [I didn't say all I said most] of you don't take the trouble to read the bio's or see which is the most creatively done character. Most of you would do this example: "Oh look its Crow vs Matt. Crow pawn Matt cuz his pic looks more "PRO" and "skillfully" done then Matt's[No offence Matt/Crow. It was only an example]then you switch pages immediatly and do the same to the rest. Man if you have been voting like this then sorry to say but you suck as a judge and this is not what the competition is looking for. And whats with Mikulo? You can't read? Having poor eyesight? Can't spell properly? Having super fail typo error or are you just FUCKING retarded? Man if you can't even read/spell/type my name properly which is always being displayed then that shows how much FAIL is in you. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you. Go see a docter before its too late and fix your attitude while you are at it.

Toast wrote:
lol what is the point of making the losing bracket go against the winning bracket? yeah it gives the losing bracket a bit more hope, but it was already made clear who people prefer


Hmmm... Well at first I was going for a single elimination bracket but some of the guys wanted it to be a double elimination so I did it. Personally I wanted a double elimination also so that there will be more fight for third and second place and maybe even first and also double elimination would give us more variety of matchups between the characters.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:35 am 
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:lol: Getting kind of mad now?

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:09 am 
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I think I'm that guy who proposed a double elimination lol...and just as mikuru stated with fervor, this competition, as I said it too in a previous post, should be taken by judging the character and not how amazingly it was done, this is not an art competition, this is a character competition, a bout between characters to see who is the most attractive of them all and not who is the best drawn of them all heck, if you've been voting otherwise then I must say this competition would be a faulty one. And that fault was not mikuru's, it is because the judges who did vote were not taking this seriously ._.

If I need give you an example, Matt's Mika vs CF's Sakura...I voted Mika despite CF's well drawn character why?
Mika
-She's cuter and I'd love to snag her (honest lol)\
-Despite the lack of details, the expression on her is priceless although to some degree (as the lack of skills yet) Matt failed to show something using the gesture he gave her
-Moe-types generally are either over expressive in emotion (Tsundere types obviously) or very reclusive and stoic (Yuki Nagato)

Sakura
-At first look, I wouldn't suspect her to be moe, as CF's style is not moe but that's not the point here
-The design of the character seems good for moe standard however the problem here is the AGE she's depicted in
-If one would imagine her as a loli she can win my vote, as she looks too old in her image to fit such a setup, wouldn't measure up to be moe but rather one of the joker/clown-type characters if she was to make appearance in that age

To rule things out moe is basically an idea of attraction, doesn't need to be of any specific attraction so long as you get attracted to the character, a sense of liking and not a sense of awe...as awe is something reserved to the skill of the one who depicted that character ._.

Same reason as to why I tried my best to draw all contestants despite the lack of detail in some (grr Matt!!) and others being extremely out of my league in detailing (grr CF!!)


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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:46 am 
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You say this competition is about creativity, in that case which are the standars for that? You know why competitions are always analised by the technique, proportions, composition and style? because is something you can measure while creativity is something you can't (not measurable at 100%, but at least closer than creativity). I could make a generic draw that everyone could fine "uncreative" at first look, but making a creative stand with it.

I agree that some creativity in a draw should be measured, but it shouldn't be the main focus, because it can't be measure as the others.

Also this is stupid, of course someone who is better is going to defeat someone who is not, thats the whole point of a contest (and at least is a contest where the one who is better win, and not the one with more popularity).

I haven't been voting, because this competition should be finished a long time ago and is obvious who are the first, second and third place. Now if you tell me that my argument of which one are the winners is bad, then Mikulo (yeah, mikulo, I don't spell it wrong because I didn't want it, I enjoy to write your user name like that) which are the standars for voting? because creativity is kinda weak, and obviously technique, composition, style and others are not for the competition.

Also I hate the loser eliminations, as Toast said by msn "Man, it's kinda rubbing in the face of losers how bad they are compared to the winners". You know, when someone tells you which are the first, second and third place, and not telling you how good or bad you went under the winners, it make you hope not being the bottom. Yeah, when you do this, it make someone not only lose, but also someone is going to be in the bottom.

Also ObitualC:
Yeah is a OC competition, where the most appealing win, but the technique, the "how it look", the colour technique and the style are important, because the visual characteristic is the first one someone see and is the one that let people make a first judgment.

Also are you saying that just writting the likes and dislikes of a character is a bio? I don't know, but for my a Bio is something a little more deeper, like problems, story, psychologic behavior, goals, contextualization (yeah, it can be a wizard and you need to make a contextualization throught the story and goals), perspective of life, phylosophy of life, etc.

So even if this is not about skills but about the "Bio's", the Bio's by it's self are failing.


I'm sorry, but the contest is retarded and just because the arguments are bad, the system is bad and people is trying to stretch it to much, something that shows a lack of professionalism (and this is supossed to be a big contest on MT).

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:35 am 
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Wow, such a heated argument over something that's supposed to be fun. Chill out everyone.

This is the first time this is being run so there are bound to be some things that need to be ironed out. We'll save the fixes for the next contest (i.e. judging criteria suggestions, bio length, etc) but for now, the contest is as it is so just let it run it's course. There's always a next time.

On a personal level, I appreciate everyone who's spent time on this contest whether it's organizing, entering, voting... or being a vocal naysayer. I'm looking forward to the next contest and hey, I think I may just enter it. :D

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:44 am 
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Well you really can't prevent arguments to start when there's an obvious troll and someone who gets angry to that troll...for the record, I didn't even stop to look at the troll's wall text because I already know it's garbage with tremendous bias plus I will need to break a leg to understand what his engrish says xD


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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:46 am 
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Well I hope your Spanish is good.
And of coruse there is going to be discussions, this is a forum.

Quote:
fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.(discussion?)


Maybe my english is bad, but at least I know what I'm talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Ninety-Nine-Nights-Fan

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Oh, so much for maintaining friendly environment then you troll D:

so much for knowing what you're talking about then >_>, trolling mikuru by creating some contest thread and even mentioning his name in the thread, placing synn's drawn image as an avatar obvious sarcasm...seriously wondering why a pest doesn't get banned really >_>

In anycase, I was wondering myself why the contest holds for so long a time duration per voting round...international saimoe only uses 1 day for voting day but I understand that not many can go online...so I was thinking it should just have a vote count limit as a signal to stop voting duration and not by just alotting a period of time to vote...

I was chatting with GaBo on this sometime ago and he agreed that roughly 15 counts is already a good sign of active voting and a good time to stop voting considering the number of active members who go online within a select period and basically counting the usual active members, that number was already good. I actually expected only about 10 votes considering some members to be not interested in being involved in this.

The double eliminination system would have been an excellent idea if all those who signed up actually submitted, because simply listing all characters up to a single voting round will obviously make the votes to dilute to get a conclusive vote due to the large number of contestants. Elimination systems are good to show distinct results in a voting population with a very low count and give precise results in large voting populations. If the contest would be held in a single vote with 8 contestants and 12 voters obviously there'd be something wrong, specially if majority of the voters wouldn't exercise wise voting (like everyone voting for one person which is unlikely based on what this contest is measuring)

And with that I peacefully laid out Clock's point which he cannot do apparently despite claiming to know his stuff (lol)

If you claimed to know and had opinions then why didn't you bring it up in the first place, you're one of the first to have registered (also one of those who didn't finish lol shame)...doesn't that make you tremendously stupid? D:

Biography was actually what I was thinking of sending however, because it was clearly stated to be likes, dislikes then I followed. Got scared a bit though because some entries sent a little bio which my entries lacked...lol...contemplated lots if I should pm mikuru for my character's bio however I did not because it could've been a bother to him >_>

You just keep things to yourself when they are most needed, then throw stones to the failure when things are already done, obvious troll


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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Obitual Crow wrote:
.for the record, I didn't even stop to look at the troll's wall text because I already know it's garbage with tremendous bias plus I will need to break a leg to understand what his engrish says xD


sooo ignorant. after you said that, you're no worse than what you're against.
you're saying he doesn't know his stuff when you refuse to even read anything he wrote. asshole

miKuru wrote:

Toast wrote:
lol what is the point of making the losing bracket go against the winning bracket? yeah it gives the losing bracket a bit more hope, but it was already made clear who people prefer


Hmmm... Well at first I was going for a single elimination bracket but some of the guys wanted it to be a double elimination so I did it. Personally I wanted a double elimination also so that there will be more fight for third and second place and maybe even first and also double elimination would give us more variety of matchups between the characters.


It's funny how nice you are to my complaint, but then to Clock you're all STFU


most of you all need to learn to use your brains

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:46 pm 
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This menial arguing needs to stop. All of you try and be the better person, and just quit while you're ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:05 pm 
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My extreme inability to draw young people will forever be emphasized by this competition. XD

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Obitual Crow wrote:
If one would imagine her as a loli she can win my vote
Pedo
I don't think moe means what you think it means

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Aren't you supposed to be participants in a competition that exploits the aesthetics of young females? Let's all be heroes and be mature or I will crush you all.

Lol, what am I doing.

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Last edited by Renzokuken on Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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