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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:47 am 
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Toast wrote:
Obitual Crow wrote:
.for the record, I didn't even stop to look at the troll's wall text because I already know it's garbage with tremendous bias plus I will need to break a leg to understand what his engrish says xD


sooo ignorant. after you said that, you're no worse than what you're against.
you're saying he doesn't know his stuff when you refuse to even read anything he wrote. silly goose

miKuru wrote:

Toast wrote:
lol what is the point of making the losing bracket go against the winning bracket? yeah it gives the losing bracket a bit more hope, but it was already made clear who people prefer


Hmmm... Well at first I was going for a single elimination bracket but some of the guys wanted it to be a double elimination so I did it. Personally I wanted a double elimination also so that there will be more fight for third and second place and maybe even first and also double elimination would give us more variety of matchups between the characters.


It's funny how nice you are to my complaint, but then to Clock you're all STFU


most of you all need to learn to use your brains


Toast why would I go all STFU on you? There is no reason for me to be mad at you whatsoever or anyone else. Error on the other hand I don't know if you noticed but he has been trolling this competition since the start of this competition[look from the start and you will understand]. I was being really nice to him since the start but his trolling has obviously been too much. I really don't like to get into fights with people but I'm still human enough to get angry.

Rio wrote:
Wow, such a heated argument over something that's supposed to be fun. Chill out everyone.

This is the first time this is being run so there are bound to be some things that need to be ironed out. We'll save the fixes for the next contest (i.e. judging criteria suggestions, bio length, etc) but for now, the contest is as it is so just let it run it's course. There's always a next time.

On a personal level, I appreciate everyone who's spent time on this contest whether it's organizing, entering, voting... or being a vocal naysayer. I'm looking forward to the next contest and hey, I think I may just enter it. :D


I'm sorry this argument started.... Due to my inexperienced and also the over excessive trolling of error is what started all this crap.I'll do my best the next contest and try to fix the issues we are having now.


Error 404 wrote:
You say this competition is about creativity, in that case which are the standars for that? You know why competitions are always analised by the technique, proportions, composition and style? because is something you can measure while creativity is something you can't (not measurable at 100%, but at least closer than creativity). I could make a generic draw that everyone could fine "uncreative" at first look, but making a creative stand with it.

I agree that some creativity in a draw should be measured, but it shouldn't be the main focus, because it can't be measure as the others.

Also this is stupid, of course someone who is better is going to defeat someone who is not, thats the whole point of a contest (and at least is a contest where the one who is better win, and not the one with more popularity).

I haven't been voting, because this competition should be finished a long time ago and is obvious who are the first, second and third place. Now if you tell me that my argument of which one are the winners is bad, then Mikulo (yeah, mikulo, I don't spell it wrong because I didn't want it, I enjoy to write your user name like that) which are the standars for voting? because creativity is kinda weak, and obviously technique, composition, style and others are not for the competition.

Also I hate the loser eliminations, as Toast said by msn "Man, it's kinda rubbing in the face of losers how bad they are compared to the winners". You know, when someone tells you which are the first, second and third place, and not telling you how good or bad you went under the winners, it make you hope not being the bottom. Yeah, when you do this, it make someone not only lose, but also someone is going to be in the bottom.

Also ObitualC:
Yeah is a OC competition, where the most appealing win, but the technique, the "how it look", the colour technique and the style are important, because the visual characteristic is the first one someone see and is the one that let people make a first judgment.

Also are you saying that just writting the likes and dislikes of a character is a bio? I don't know, but for my a Bio is something a little more deeper, like problems, story, psychologic behavior, goals, contextualization (yeah, it can be a wizard and you need to make a contextualization throught the story and goals), perspective of life, phylosophy of life, etc.

So even if this is not about skills but about the "Bio's", the Bio's by it's self are failing.


I'm sorry, but the contest is retarded and just because the arguments are bad, the system is bad and people is trying to stretch it to much, something that shows a lack of professionalism (and this is supossed to be a big contest on MT).



Error I think you didn't read my last post properly or maybe you didn't even bother to look at all but you still don't seem to get it.... I may as well list it done for you then if thats the case,,,,,,,,,,

1) About the bio part [example: Age/Likes/Dislikes/added bio if you want]. I wonder if you even read the last part cuz I already answerd your question...... You just twisted your words and made a new argument happen. Also if you retrace back to the previous post I did state that you may add characters background, behaviour etcetc.

You wrote:
Quote:
Also are you saying that just writting the likes and dislikes of a character is a bio? I don't know, but for my a Bio is something a little more deeper, like problems, story, psychologic behavior, goals, contextualization (yeah, it can be a wizard and you need to make a contextualization throught the story and goals), perspective of life, phylosophy of life, etc.
[Troll act number 1]

2)
Quote:
I haven't been voting, because this competition should be finished a long time ago and is obvious who are the first, second and third place. Now if you tell me that my argument of which one are the winners is bad, then Mikulo (yeah, mikulo, I don't spell it wrong because I didn't want it, I enjoy to write your user name like that) which are the standars for voting? because creativity is kinda weak, and obviously technique, composition, style and others are not for the competition.


Since when did I say technique,composition, style is not needed for this competition?
Quote:
It was mainly about CREATIVITY[skill is also needed but not the winning key alone].

Quote:
CREATIVELY and CUTELY created character[if you have skill added on then that would be a bonus]

Quote:
But at the end of the day it all comes down to you imagination and original concepts and your understanding of what a real moe character should be like. the more original your character, the better. Just keep in mind of the many things I stated down. Hope this answers your questions and gives everyone a better understanding of Moe.

Man you seem to miss understand me or rather you don't read or look at what I post[details on the competition and others] and yes I did say creativity is the main but never did I say no to skill/style/technique etcetc. Let me give you an example of what I mean and what this competition is looking for
Image
[If you look at this photo and say that you can't measure or understand the creativity in this then you are just too stupid]
I wrote EVERYTHING at the starting page of this competition and yet all this info just doesn't get into your head I have no idea why.....Please go back to page one and READ what I posted......... Or maybe we could just call it [Troll act number 2]

Oh and yes its obvious who is number 1 and 2 but not 3. There is still a fighting chance for some of the guys at looser bracket to get there. You look down on people too much thats why you fixed your winner 1,2 and 3. Even though they are at the looser bracket doesn't mean they suck.

3)
Quote:
Also I hate the loser eliminations, as Toast said by msn "Man, it's kinda rubbing in the face of losers how bad they are compared to the winners". You know, when someone tells you which are the first, second and third place, and not telling you how good or bad you went under the winners, it make you hope not being the bottom. Yeah, when you do this, it make someone not only lose, but also someone is going to be in the bottom.


I'm sorry to say but you suck as an artist. If you see your at the bottom is doesn't mean you suck or anything. It means that you need to work harder. You need to improve yourself, do more daily drawings, coloring etcetc. As an artist there is no such thing called shame at being at the bottom or noob. It just means you have to work harder to reach the top. It can also be a motivation or a target for a artist to improve him/herself to reach the top and it also tells you that you have lots more to learn. If you don't think this way that just shows that you are an arrogant artist that looks down on everyone and thinks that you are the best of the best. I'm not saying I'm any better then any of you here. Infact I'm a sucky artist myself and draw like crap but I never think its over and I keep pushing myself to get better day by day.

4)
Quote:
I'm sorry, but the contest is retarded and just because the arguments are bad, the system is bad and people is trying to stretch it to much, something that shows a lack of professionalism (and this is supossed to be a big contest on MT).


You can thank youself for starting the arguments cuz you never read properly but just simply blaber out words. Its true I may have over stretch the voting system and yes its true I lack professionalism cuz I'm not a pro and this is my first time doing this. Problems are sure to happen in this kinda competition when done by a first timer. And the contest is not retarded.You are. I don't know what fun you get trolling this contest and like you said [This is suppossed to be a big contest on MT] and indeed it is but why on earth are you still trolling the contest? Lame. And as for the "Mikulo" part. I maybe asian but I do know other languages. You actually mean "Kulo= culo" you probably won't admit it but I know what you mean.[Another troll act]

5)
Quote:
Also this is stupid, of course someone who is better is going to defeat someone who is not, thats the whole point of a contest (and at least is a contest where the one who is better win, and not the one with more popularity).
Well duh obviously. Since when did I say someone better will loose to someone who is not?
Quote:
Oh look its Crow vs Matt. Crow pawn Matt cuz his pic looks more "PRO" and "skillfully" done then Matt's[No offence Matt/Crow. It was only an example]then you switch pages immediatly and do the same to the rest.

I wrote this to show how most people vote wrongly. You should atleast read the bio, look at the creative parts of the pic[MOE]"important". I did over exaggerated at the "PRO" and "skillfully" part[I'm a silly goose sorry]BUT never did I say someone better will loose to someone who is not. What are you trying to get at troll??

6)
Quote:
I agree that some creativity in a draw should be measured, but it shouldn't be the main focus, because it can't be measure as the others.


Why cant it be measured and be the main focus? Creativity can be measured as the others. Want an example? Go to page 1 and look at the two pictures and tell me which one is more creatively done. If you can't say which one then you sure have got some problems.


Now I had my say and I think this argument has gotten too far. Man error if you don't like it here then I'm very sorry that it doesn't meet your expectations. IF you still want to argue then just LEAVE this competition thread and wait for the next competition to be held. Just stop your trolling. I do agree that there are many flaws in this competition due to my lack of experince and I'm very sorry things didn't turn out the way it supposed to be. I promise to make this competition better the next time this competiton is held.




Obitual Crow wrote:
In anycase, I was wondering myself why the contest holds for so long a time duration per voting round...international saimoe only uses 1 day for voting day but I understand that not many can go online...so I was thinking it should just have a vote count limit as a signal to stop voting duration and not by just alotting a period of time to vote...

I was chatting with GaBo on this sometime ago and he agreed that roughly 15 counts is already a good sign of active voting and a good time to stop voting considering the number of active members who go online within a select period and basically counting the usual active members, that number was already good. I actually expected only about 10 votes considering some members to be not interested in being involved in this.

Well I wanted to use the same voting time as the international saimoe tournaments but I figured I put it a week so all members could have time to vote. I guess I'll change it for the next round cuz it is indeed too long.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:52 am 
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What a biblic text wall that says nothing.

1) Add Bio if you want: I don't see how a "If you want" is a standard for classification or to make some difference. To much freedom to the contesters and no real application for the voters. The "mights" and "if you want" don't sound like rules.

2) You are the one who see the Troll act. Of course this is ambiguous, for you and others might be trolling, for others I might have right (and I have talked to others and they support my statement).

Also, you said "mainly creativity" something that can't be measures and It can't. I'm going to use your example of draw, you say that draw is full of creativity and I say it has nothing of creativity. How can I say such a thing?

First, what you consider creativity is something that only you do, I don't know the artist, I don't know what he/she is meaning with that draw or which are the symbols used. So the creativity in there is in your eyes not in mines, and this make it ambiguous.

Second, I can see a composition and a great colour technique. Can I say that those are Creativity? No, those are norms, and as I state before, are these the ones that should me measured. Maybe you need to start knowing which are the difference between creativity, composition, technique, etc.

Third, Can I make a comparison of that draw with (as a example) the one made by seffy, only using the Creativity as my measuring factor? No I can't, for my according to what is creativity both are equal, but in technique and composition that is complete different. Also Creativity is not only unable to be measured, is unable to be compared, a critical factor in a competition.

3) Yeah I suck as an artist, but can you tell me why do I suck for you? Have you seen my canvas? t-shirts? Or any other thing I have done? For myself I suck, but please tell me why I suck for you.

Also your statement doesn't change the fact that the elimination bracket is stupid and also affect to the losers in a emotional level. Your statement of "there is no shame in being noob in art" is just your opinion and doesn't reflect what other peoples think or feel.

4) Nice to see how you declare a loser in the argument and in the way of making this contest. And I'm trolling this, because I care how this look for us, and for other people, this is a fact of image, and doing this silly stuffs make no good for the forum or his users.

5) Of course people vote wrongly, thats the whole point of making a public voting. You even encourage to make people from other places to vote, this make it more obvious the ambiguity of the people who vote. Public vote = popularity. Now I thanks that at least everything looks like the most skillful is going to win, this mean that the people who vote have brains but are probably not so focus in the bios.

6) Go back to point 2.


Finally, I see that you agree in how you failed and how bad is this contest doing. Next time, do it better or someone else should do it.

Also next time you are going to make a pointless text wall, don't wait a reply, because I don't want to waste time in reply something so pointless when I could use my times doing something much more important, like fapping.


Also I'm going to put who should win and why.
First Place: Mana (no idea who did it, because Mikulo doesn't tell me): Is the one best done, most edgy using a different perspective, and most clear of the style that the contest is about, also good colours and good draw (a little weak, but is ok).
Second Place: Seffy: Different and good. It has some minor imperfections, thats why is second and not first, because the texture is cool, the painting is cool, it has some very good stuffs, but the minor imperfections make it in second.
Third Place: Obvitual Crow: Very Moe, but very disproportional, arms have different lengths and the same for legs.

Now you can agree or not, I don't care, but this is how this competition would and should end.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:26 am 
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*scratches head*

Hey, uh-- I'll say right now that I didn't care to read much of this quibble, but might I ask that you two take it to PMs?

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:37 am 
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^this.

I have this thread on notification, in case news happens...so...yeah. News is not happening (not trying sound like a silly goose...but it's kinda annoying to keep coming back here and it's just bickering.)

To bring it back on topic, when will the second round of voting be done?

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:39 am 
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At this point, I think it would be best to just drop out of the argument--as in, Miku, ignore anything Clock says, and Clock, if you have any shame, quit trolling this thread. As Seefy said, if this MUST continue, it'd best be in PM.

@Blue Dragon - 7 days as of . . . Monday, I think. Not positive.


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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:32 am 
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Thanks :) Much obliged.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:40 am 
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:clears throat:

The next person who continues the argument will get banned for the rest of the month.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:51 am 
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Nah Rio its ok. I already stated that I'll stop this argument. If Error still wants to look for more flaws or arguments then let him have his way. I don't really care to read what he just wrote. Couldn't be bordered. This competition will go on as it is.

@Matt,Dragon : I'm changing the voting days at the moment so voting has been closed. I'll inform you again when voting is re-opened.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Re-voting will start today and will last for 24 hours. Its about 8am here so make sure to set your time correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Re-voting? What?
sorry, I haven't been following the thread D:


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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Sorry I meant second round voting is open again.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:16 am 
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Second round voting is over and the results are:

Results
Mika V Sabik = Mika
Niki V Shimiko= Shimiko
Kyoshka V Sakura= Sakura
Minami V Mana= Mana

Congratulations to the contestants that advanced to the next round and for those of you who didn't make it, you did well and we hope to see you again for the next SaiMoe tournament :D.

Next voting session will begin 12 hours after last voting session[2 hours left].

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2!! [late >.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:13 am 
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Bracket is out!
Image

Voting is now open. Now I will be trying something new. Since many of the members have been complaining that this competition has been eating up too many threads I will attempt to use one thread for both the winner and looser bracket voting. Each person will be given 3 voting opportunities. This will enable each person to vote for all 3 voting sessions. Voting will last for 2 days. Now I need feed back from you guys what you think of the new voting style. This will help me in improving the next SaiMoe tournament. Thanks. I may have messed up ones but I intend to fix the mistakes I did :).

PS: Also tell me about the voting days. Wish for it to be longer or 24 hour voting system.

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 Post subject: Re: =:3MangaTutorials SaiMoe Tournament:3=Round 2 results] R
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:17 am 
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Yes good decision, I was thinking about that since it is possible to have people get more than one vote. About the 24 hour vote duration, I don't think that'll work here because only a few goes online everyday...24 voting duration will only work if this contest is advertised by the site itself (like banner clickies to indicate that voting has begun). Many are lazy to check this thread over and over afterall.


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