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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:46 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1h3vcLybfA

*whistles and walks off*

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Cool they invented a mech that will make me late for everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Is a Mech made so you learn to appreacite the walking.

For my the closest mech to what could happen in the reality are the ones of Ghost in The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

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Even so the problem in this case is the energy.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Already mentioned the Tachikoma's a few posts ago bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:53 pm 
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A mech with the capabilities of a Gundam would silly goose in warfare, tanks or not. And Jubeh, compared to battlemechs, tanks ARE like cardboard boxes on treads lawl. The only efficient tanks in the Battletech Universe are Harassers (hovercraft, and named rather aptly) for hit-and-run SRM tactics and Myrmidons for their crazy PPCs.

But is it possible? Probably not. Unless we can find a way to move hundreds of tons of steel at a speed equivalent to our own human reflexes, something with the articulation of a Gundam is p. much impossible. Given that, the effectiveness of a Gundam is greatly decreased--to the point of uselessness. It would probably move at like a crawling 10 feet p. second.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:19 pm 
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CypressDahlia wrote:
And Jubeh, compared to battlemechs, tanks ARE like cardboard boxes on treads lawl.


We are still talking about mechwarrior right.

So why are there tanks at all. Like tanks show up just to be annoying. Even in steel battalion its like this. You use your weak guns on them because they aren't worth the missiles. Why not just forego having tanks in the game at all if they are going to suck.

Or at least instead of spreading your tanks out along roads and shit have them all group together and focus fire on my joints or something. I don't know, Im not the one having to defend my planet.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:52 pm 
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I just picked up Battletech earlier today for some reason, so I have a bit of an idea what's going on here. But that aside *shot*, I'm gonna jump on the "not impossible" bandwagon.

In five to twenty years (nice job pinpointing it, I know), we're apparently gonna have quantum computers that will blow away today's million dollar rigs. In that same five to twenty years, I believe it's safe to assume that we'll make such advancements in robotics as well, although the biggest issue would be, like has been said, practicality. A walking tank based on a hypothetical source of fuel that didn't cost $3.20 per gallon and $10,000 per fill would be a slightly better solution at the moment than a full-blown anime-style mech. As it is, tanks are pretty efficient, but slow. A fast-moving tank would be the ultimate weapon of war (besides a good EMP blast or a nuke).

Putting all that off, there's the issue of piloting. If a dude (or a young teenage girl, in the case of many Gundam shows) was plopped in the middle of a mech, all it would take to render the thing useless would be to kill the pilot--and that's achievable in many, many ways. We actually talked about this subject yesterday in one of my classes: CURRENT technology, as in, today, allows people to manipulate given objects, on or off-screen, with their mind. So, in those 5-20 years, THAT will probably become capable of piloting our hypothetical walking tank, or, if we can figure out a way to do it, mech.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Well, I mean, every game needs their pushover enemy. =P Tanks just exist in the MW universe to pick away at your health w/ ACs so that your mech contacts are more challenging to bring down due to the offset. It's more of a game thing than anything logical. But yeah, you're absolutely right haha. But, I guess if I tried to rationalize it...

I'm guessing it's like how our war is today: there are hundreds of foot soldiers and maybe a dozen tanks to complement. Just bump that up one level. Make the foot soldiers tanks and tanks into mechs, and scale appropriately based on costs and efficiency. I'm sure there is a lot of sub-mech level combat going on, too. Like, I'm pretty sure they don't just go "send in the mechs" every time they have a conflict, and some combat occurs solely between tanks, or infantry or air vehicles, etc. So it's not really like all battles take place on a mech v. mech level. We just happen to witness the ones that do. I'm sure most of the work is being done by tanks and shit, it's just that a single mech is so effective in its longevity and firepower that it becomes the focus of the battle, despite the fact that there //are// other things out there doing work. So I mean, tanks probably aren't useless altogether in Battletech--they're just useless against mechs, one of which we just happen to pilot.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:03 pm 
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If we can make a crane that can swing 360 degrees in 5 seconds or so...we can make a gundam-ish mech...
But right now, it ain't happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:34 pm 
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@Matt: I really don't think that a walking mech could accomplish anything a tank, or perhaps an Apache helicopter*, can't. For one thing, the M1A2 Abrams has a top speed of 45 miles per hour - in terms of BattleTech, this is actually the same speed that a similar-weight BattleMech can expect (Crusader). I wouldn't really classify it as slow.

I feel like video games and other media tend to grossly represent just how powerful the tank actually is. In reality, tanks such as the M1A2 have an effective firing range of about 3 kilometers, various anti-missile countermeasures, targeting systems and a fuckton of armor, especially in the front - and the rounds they fire aren't a joke.

*The Apache is actually already ridiculous - the Longbow system can identify up to 128 targets in under a minute, and its Hellfire missiles have a range of 8km - plus there's a variant where the gunner has head-tracking to control the 30mm machine gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:48 pm 
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I don't think a crane swinging 360 degrees in one direction, mostly due to inertia, is comparable to human reflex, Gunzet. =P

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Cype did you play steel battalion.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Yes. What about it?

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 Post subject: Re: Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:14 pm 
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WARNING (and I apologize for) A WALL OF TEXT...

Hohoho, an interesting thread while I'm away, and look, it's already 3 whole pages of posts. This topic have been discussed over and over again in the past (not here), and it's really fun. Is bipedal humanoid (gigantic) robot/armor/mecha (or whatever you call it, you philosophical dude) could be useful in real war? The short answer is NO.

From the shape, humanoid form is a bad form for a battle. Without tools, we human will be overwhelmed by almost all animals out there. And from the sky, standing humanoid form is a nice target for missiles. From the ground, standing humanoid form (especially for giant robots like gundam) is very easy recognizable (and I bet humanoid mecha is a valuable opportunity target).

Bipedal also a bad idea. Past anime/game always mentioned that bipedal advantageous is to be able to travel all kind of terrain (especially compared to tanks). Actually, it's the other way around, tank threads is way better than bipedal. Using bipedal, meaning the entire weight of the mecha will be focused in two tiny spots (while threads spread it evenly). The only benefit that bipedal has over tanks thread is the ability to "walk" over tank traps. And also don't forget that with a right weapon, infantry could easily achieve mobility kill against bipedal mecha.

Having a hand is also another bad idea. Since complex operation needed to just fire a gun (aiming the gun, pressing the trigger, and then the whole mechanism of the gun itself). The weapon size, caliber, and recoil is also thing to consider.

And also don't forget other things that plague a real battlefield (especially if you are away from the homeland). Things like maintenance and how to deploy those mechas into battlefield (and how to extract them from battlefield).

In the future, most battle would be fought in city (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) and city battle is the one take most causality. Tanks is very vulnerable in city battle since there are too many blind spot. Anyone who played Battlefield 2 should already know about this. Tanks without infantry support = death wish. I think the future of the battle lies in infantry. That's why US future warrior program is all about infantry, right?

Instead of giant mecha like gundam, it's better to have smaller bipedal armor suit, like those in Alien 2, Spaceship Troopers, or Avatar. Instead of treating it like a tanks, it's more like infantry, but with abilities to carry all kind of heavy weaponry. Who needs one tank if you have 4 infantry (one fire-team) that could carry heavy caliber machine guns, anti-air, anti-tank, anti-bunker missiles, and all other kind of weapons... and equipped with all kind of sensors that a tanks would normally have? It's also suitable for city battle (since you could still use building for covers).

Anyway, one thing that really important to solve right now is (just like other said) the power source.

Mecha, if human could build it, is more useful for building/construction purpose, I believe. Just like we, when still a child, building blocks and other things. Patlabor would be a good example of this.

And one more thing to say... and it's that makes me wonder, why all games and movies fail to address. If we already could make awesome war machine like gundam or other mechas, why we couldn't make even more awesome tanks or fighter jets (or even battle cruiser/aegis battleship)? All this time, all games/movies only pit a ultra high tech mecha against obsolete tanks or fighters from stone age...

And considering all things I mentioned above, in real war, it's even better if we just deploy multiple latest generation tanks and fighters (all remote controlled like drones) compared to a single giant mecha... it's cheaper and more effective.

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