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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:30 pm 
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One of my favourite tutorial people is Mark Crilley on Youtube. Check out his videos if you haven't already.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Obitual Crow wrote:
The secret to drawing is being able to understand. Simply put, if you can't draw something, then you don't understand it. No buts. That's the signal for you to take the initiative to understand it. Research. Learn. Apply. Otherwise, you're no different to someone lazy trying to perform good without prior knowledge.

In the end, even if you consult over 9000 tutorials and apply the silly goose it dictates but not even a percent of information from these you grasp then it is pointless. How do you expect to understand things by seeing through how other people understand it? Your efforts for taking things seriously are useless. I can't even call it taking it seriously. May I even ask how much about the musculature of the body you know =____= How serious could serious be for you?

In fact, the bulk of your problems are the typical set for people just starting out. If you can't go out of your comfort zone, you won't go anywhere else. Drawing is not an ability you can simply turn on and off because you want to. You work hard for it. You can't beg for it. You seize it.


Pay LOTS of attention to above person's advice... no, seriously! Have you looked at Crow's drawings? xD

I'm no pro - I just want to share that the more I got used to drawing, ironically, the more I realized how little I know and how much I need to find out. Masterpieces result only from extensive studies into structure and function.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:36 pm 
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You said you draw with a mouse? Use references and use the grid function in your CG program if it has one to get really accurate sketches. Then zoom, zoom, zoom in. It'll make your lines more smooth.

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Sumenoe wrote:
I do work hard. I didn't just start. I have read about human anatomy. I can look at myself from mirror too. I got objects in my house. I keep trying to draw manga, objects and who knows what. I keep thinking for ways to make it possible. I can see things in my head but they disappear when I try to draw. It's like I lost my memories when I try to draw.

I have gone to many perspective drawing classes. I supposedly know how to draw rooms with different perspectives. But all that knowledge goes away when I try to draw. My imagination completely dies when I start drawing. All I can see in my head is words (long hair, eyes, nose, table, wall...) but not the meaning of them. They are just voices.


Again,
"do work hard"
I fail to see how hard you worked hard compared to how hard I worked my ass to get somewhere in my life >________> Maybe I should post more of my old stuff ahehe, if only I didn't garbage them because their ugliness cannot be unseen.

"read about human anatomy"
Anyone can do that, anyone who can read anyway but only a hand full here actually take their time to understand it. How do you expect to draw a drop dead gorgeous super special awesome dynamic pose if you don't know at least how every muscle included work and make them appear like working ^^

"seeing things in head but thought disappears"
Everyone has such a problem myself included. I never drew images to exact in my head anyway. I simply put down key points to atleast retain the essence of the composition.

The solution can be simply stated in one word: Understand


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:42 am 
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Let's start with some things you've said so far Sumenoe
Sumenoe wrote:
I don't remember exactly but I have been drawing seriously for.... 7-10 years.

Sumenoe wrote:
One year I managed to draw only one drawing. Thats how long I spent on it and I'm not happy with it

Sumenoe wrote:
I do work hard. I didn't just start. I have read about human anatomy.

Sumenoe wrote:
I have gone to many perspective drawing classes. I supposedly know how to draw rooms with different perspectives. But all that knowledge goes away when I try to draw.


considering all these statements and what pictures you've shown make for a bit of an awkward disconnect. fact is it is hard to understand how these two differing things can exist at once. Obitual Crow is on the right track of understanding; as drawing seems to be more a game of understanding over knowledge. but the fact remains if you truly have been at this for 7-10 years as you say then why is THIS the best you seem to be able to muster, which though a vast improvement over a lot of the other stuff in this thread still doesn't show much of the understanding that should have seeped into your mind over the years.

Most likely because this understanding is not being allowed to seep in, you have essentially fortified an airtight seal against it whether you are aware of it or not. basically what i am saying is that you have likely erected (subconsciously with a good likely hood) a mental block that until it is removed you will never progress past. Of course if this is true it still doesn't help much as the matters of why and how this block came to be are only to your knowledge (i might wager money on the hand thing making at least some small factor assuming you weren't born with it) and it's hard to get you past a block without those.

Of course i am no psychiatrist/psychologist so do take this with the necessary salt.

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:42 am 
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Bardic-Dragoon wrote:
Let's start with some things you've said so far Sumenoe
Sumenoe wrote:
I don't remember exactly but I have been drawing seriously for.... 7-10 years.

Sumenoe wrote:
One year I managed to draw only one drawing. Thats how long I spent on it and I'm not happy with it

Sumenoe wrote:
I do work hard. I didn't just start. I have read about human anatomy.

Sumenoe wrote:
I have gone to many perspective drawing classes. I supposedly know how to draw rooms with different perspectives. But all that knowledge goes away when I try to draw.


considering all these statements and what pictures you've shown make for a bit of an awkward disconnect. fact is it is hard to understand how these two differing things can exist at once. Obitual Crow is on the right track of understanding; as drawing seems to be more a game of understanding over knowledge. but the fact remains if you truly have been at this for 7-10 years as you say then why is THIS the best you seem to be able to muster, which though a vast improvement over a lot of the other stuff in this thread still doesn't show much of the understanding that should have seeped into your mind over the years.

Most likely because this understanding is not being allowed to seep in, you have essentially fortified an airtight seal against it whether you are aware of it or not. basically what i am saying is that you have likely erected (subconsciously with a good likely hood) a mental block that until it is removed you will never progress past. Of course if this is true it still doesn't help much as the matters of why and how this block came to be are only to your knowledge (i might wager money on the hand thing making at least some small factor assuming you weren't born with it) and it's hard to get you past a block without those.

Of course i am no psychiatrist/psychologist so do take this with the necessary salt.



This might be the problem. When I think about drawing now, in my mind, I can see myself drawing all kinds of stuff and understanding the shapes and stuff. But when I actually draw, all that goes away and all I see is a white screen. If I draw something, all I can see is random lines that look like nothing. Every now and then I manage to do something and it seems like I have read something. Next time I draw, I start almost from zero.

I have no idea about any blocks, except that it seems that my whole mind goes to sleep when I try to draw...... About the hand thing, I did and did not born with it. It is a small part of a bigger problem that I had since I was born and it got worse. It will get even worse. It wasn't that bad when I was young, I didn't really even notice it. All I could tell was that writing exams with pen was a silly goose for me.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:46 am 
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I think the question here is another...this person gets discomfort while using pens in his hands, telling him to work hard with mouse when his goal is something as rich-detailed as manga is not a realistic goal.
IMO the best solution here is a collaboration, he writes the story and the other person draws. There are many lazy ppl that do that :p, having a physical limitation is even a stronger reason for it.

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:50 am 
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clafann1 wrote:
I think the question here is another...this person gets discomfort while using pens in his hands, telling him to work hard with mouse when his goal is something as rich-detailed as manga is not a realistic goal.
IMO the best solution here is a collaboration, he writes the story and the other person draws. There are many lazy ppl that do that :p, having a physical limitation is even a stronger reason for it.


Yeah, my brains tell me the same but I'm just too stubborn. I want to do something completely by myself. I don't know if I could ever be happy with what someone else does, it wouldn't be what I wanted it to be. Though, I think that whatever others make is always better than what I do.

Anyway, thanks everyone for trying to help. Every now and then I ask for help in different places in hopes of finding out new learning methods, new studying methods, drawing methods or anything that would help me.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:51 am 
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Drawing with a mouse isn't an issue. There have been a few people on this board who drew exclusively with a mouse that were very, very good (example: gridbug).

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Dude, if you have enough will, there's always a way.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:31 pm 
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Hamachi wrote:
Dude, if you have enough will, there's always a way.


I would like to say that I'm depressed because a guy draws better than I do with his mouth but I think that he draws better than 80% of all artists. Some of his work look almost like a black and white photos.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:19 pm 
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I'd say, quit thinking about makng something look good or to your specifications. Sometimes when we get older we forget the key ingredient in things of an artistic nature. Just hav fun with it. Isn't that what we did as children and our elementary art teacher gave us finger paints? For older artists it tends to quit being an activity of fun and expression and soon becomes an obsession. Sounds like your mental block comes from focusingto much on what you can't do. Remember, we are as our thoughts - "buddah" the more you tell yourself you can't do something the more of a likleyhood that youwont be able to.

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:40 am 
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Thats not really true. When I'm drawing, I'm not really focusing on anything but thinking if my drawing looks like anything (it usually looks like random lines here and there). When I draw, I'm not thinking about can I do it or not. However, when I spend hours and still got nothing but a white screen, I know it's time for a little break.

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that I don't like drawing. I don't exactly dislike it either. It's just a method of achieving something. I like the results but I don't really care about the process. The drawing process is not the same as actually designing the drawing, at least not for me. I would be very happy if I could just think and plan in my mind what kind of image I want it to be and bang, it would be in my computer. Then I would make it even better by just thinking about it. That would basically remove the drawing process


I want an anime with the story I wrote. It won't happen. No matter how good I was, I couldn't do it alone.

The second best thing is manga with the story. Theoretically I should be able to do it and if some miracle happened, it could somehow become popular and someone could make an anime out of it.

Getting someone else to draw it could be hard and possibly cost lots of money. Explaining every small detail to the artist could be hard too because I want more or less everything to be the way I designed it.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:20 pm 
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By the way not all manga artists use super realism, you can use a more simplified style, something like this:

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 Post subject: Re: How can I draw?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:08 pm 
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It doesn't need to be a Berserk manga but being too simple would totally kill the story and everything.


EDIT:

What do you think about the following idea: I buy some 3d program that comes with a human model or two. The model and it's parts are easily sizeable (like length of arms and legs) and easily and realistically poseable. I would put the 3d model in a pose I want my character to be in and take a screenshot. Then I would put that screenshot half transparent into a pose layer. Then I could draw lineart on another layer on top of it. I'm not talking about tracing lines but having a realistic pose and the right length for arms and legs. I could first draw a dummy/doll and then little by little turn it into a body/clothes.

I already know a bit about 3d, though not enough to create a 3d anime/manga character. I have seen real-time, animated, controllable 3d characters that look 90% like an anime character. The 3d world around them doesn't look like anime though. It's actually one of my long term plan to learn 3d modelling. I have already created some ugly, bad models and it seems that the only issue there is that I don't have experience yet or enough knowledge about the programs and 3d modelling. Those things can easily be fixed with time. Having a poseable characters that would require only a little photoshopping would make the process of making manga much easier for someone like me. It's better to spend a month on a random 3d character and then a day to put him on one and only page than spending 12 months drawing one box and then another 12 months for each time the appears on the page.


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